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afwriter
afwriter
3/25/2016 10:46:06 PM
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Platinum
The concern with security
I am a huge proponent of IoT and am currently outfitting my house with a number of devices.  While I try to tell myself that IoT devices are often safer than their traditional counterparts (locks and smoke alarms for example) the idea that some one could "hack" my lock instead of pick it, or tap into my drop cam is always looming somewhere in the back of my mind.

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batye
batye
3/25/2016 11:54:44 PM
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Platinum
Re: The concern with security
@afwriter  interesting to know, thanks for sharing - keep us posted how it worked out for you...

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linkedin10023
linkedin10023
3/26/2016 1:23:45 PM
User Rank
Steel
Re: The concern with security
It's interesting, isn't it, seeing as how physically picking a lock is (depending on your choice of scenario) the same as logically hacking/cracking it.  I do agree, though, that these devices do expand the degrees to which we expose ourselves, in that instead of having to physically be at your front door to pentest the lock an intruder can be anywhere with internet access.  While I take precautions and accept the relative risks (I'm a boring person), it doesn't negate the fact that "pretty-normal" kids these days are learning to pwn these devices!

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Joe Stanganelli
Joe Stanganelli
3/27/2016 6:22:06 PM
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Author
Re: The concern with security
> "it doesn't negate the fact that "pretty-normal" kids these days are learning to pwn these devices!"

If kids are being raised with and developing more cybersecurity awareness than the rest of society has, that's probably a good thing (they can't all turn out to be bad guys, can they?).  :)

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
3/28/2016 10:56:25 AM
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Platinum
Re: The concern with security
@Joe:

Very interesting point about kids. I believe it is a bit tricky situation. It is good thinking to bring kids up to speed with cybser security awareness. There is a very good chance for kids getting curious with both sides of the coin. Obviously we try to emphasize positive side of it. But eventually it would be them that pick whatever side as they grow up, not necessarily with negative side. But we can not rule out that possibility 100%.

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Joe Stanganelli
Joe Stanganelli
3/30/2016 8:58:29 AM
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Author
Re: The concern with security
I think that teaching kids and encouraging their learning about cybersecurity and hacking will no more or less likely lead them to become black-hat hackers than will teaching teenagers how to drive turn them into car thieves.

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
3/30/2016 11:06:28 AM
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Platinum
Re: The concern with security
Good Analogy and I agree.

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dlr5288
dlr5288
3/30/2016 4:40:46 PM
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Platinum
Re: The concern with security
Good point!

I think that teaching people about cyber hacking and educating them about things like that has no difference whether they later become some huge hacker or not. I think if someone wants to know how to hack and becomes interested in doing things like that then they're going to do it reguardless.

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JohnBarnes
JohnBarnes
3/28/2016 7:16:07 AM
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Platinum
Re: The concern with security
The actual value of the old-time physical lock is not in its difficulty of picking, where software definitely wins -- software can simulate thousands of tumblers with thousands of positions, compared to less than ten tumblers with less than twenty positions on even very sophisticated combination or key locks.  The value of the physical lock is that Bob the Burglar has to be physically next to the physical lock, for some indefinite period of time, to pick it. And much as we all feel that our virtual selves are part of our selves, Bob the Burglar can shed those like a lizard's tail to evade escape, whereas if he's actually on your porch visibly messing with your lock, there's at least a chance that a cop will be able to catch him.

Note to innovators and enhancers: the "unbreakable tail" would be a huge enhancement on IoT security.  I know you're already working on many versions of it; it's a good path, and maybe a necessary one.

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Joe Stanganelli
Joe Stanganelli
3/28/2016 8:40:24 AM
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Author
Re: The concern with security
@JohnBarnes: Good points, as always.  Maybe the way to go is to use both types of locks, to get the best of both worlds!

I remember years ago reading or hearing a comedian saying that he had six locks on his door but only locked three of them, so that a burglar would lock three of them whenever he tried to pick them.  (Obviously, you and I know it doesn't work that way, but still funny.)

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JohnBarnes
JohnBarnes
3/28/2016 9:05:14 PM
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Platinum
Re: The concern with security
Once the IoT becomes smart enough, it's all moot. When your house simply recognizes you the way a human guard would, and can figure out that you are being held  at weaponpoint or coerced or deceived into letting a possibly dangerous stranger come in with you, and can respond accordingly, hacking won't be such a worry (since the door will have many anti-hacking defenses) and the physical part can be in a hardened doorframe, where the bad guys would really have to get out the hacksaws and dynamite to go after it.

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Joe Stanganelli
Joe Stanganelli
3/30/2016 9:31:20 AM
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Author
Re: The concern with security
@JohnBarnes: Reminds me of that mechanophore-based plastic that hardens and becomes stronger if it is stretched, torn, or otherwise "damaged"/abused.  (link)

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Alison
Alison
3/30/2016 10:10:34 AM
User Rank
Silver
Re: The concern with security
That's a great point, John. We keep acting and thiknkng as if everything around us will stay the same - other than hackers will get smarter. What's also true is that IoT will become smarter and it will get more challenging for hackers to mimic us, far beyond today's fingerprint or iris scans. With that in mind, the pictures of future IoT security solutions are rosier.

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Joe Stanganelli
Joe Stanganelli
3/31/2016 10:03:07 AM
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Author
Re: The concern with security
@Alison:

re: "it will get more challenging for hackers to mimic us,"

The problem is that once they succeed (they will succeed), that's yet more personal, more damaging data that they've compromised (e.g., biometrics).

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JohnBarnes
JohnBarnes
4/21/2016 7:35:04 AM
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Platinum
Re: The concern with security
@Joe, that's a multigeneration trend now. When I started as an undergrad, most colleges were using social security number as a student i.d. because "no one would know it except the student" and it had no other uses outside the social security system.  My first ATM card came with a list of suggested ways to come up with a password, and its only cautions were not to use "password", your name, or 12345...; it actually suggested using your birthdate or high school+graduation year.

Things, as they say, have changed; nowadays you can Google "most common street name in .... ", "most common pet names" by decade, and huge amounts of personal data. Biometric information is being used to prevent patient misidentification (so we're less like to chop off Sydney's toe instead of Syndey's, when Sydney comes in for her athlete's foot and Syndey is delayed coming back from the Fatal Toe Syndrome clinic).  Facebook and archives are rapidly destroying many of the common sources of "only you know."  And as the reserve of private data that has never been on line grows ever smaller for almost everyone, the value of stealing the last bits just goes up.

 

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Joe Stanganelli
Joe Stanganelli
4/24/2016 8:56:05 AM
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Author
Re: The concern with security
@John: Even then, we were being warned to not use "password," "123456," and our first names -- and even now, we still do!  Marvelous.

I had to Google "Fatal Toe Syndrome" while reading your comment, incidentally.

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JohnBarnes
JohnBarnes
4/24/2016 2:03:04 PM
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Platinum
Re: The concern with security
@joe, LOL. I just made up fatal toe syndrome, but when you said you googled it, naturally I did too, and discovered there's something called blue toe syndrome that is sometimes associated with fatality. (It's bad circulation associated with strokes and heart attacks, so nobody else has to go look).

Slightly more seriously, a good webscraping program that I could write in R (and I'm really just learning R, not at all proficient yet) could probably gin up "the 10,000 most likely passwords for" any given person, with a probably better than 95% chance that their password was on the list.

I'm wondering if someday there will be a market for an input/output system so that when you go online, your computer automatically consistently changes personal data on every unsecured link (e.g. always alters your birthday to something else that's plus or minus two years from your real one, changes your high school graduation date to match, moves your high school one district over, makes your mother's maiden name different (while still leaving it a last name) etc. etc. etc., and then re-alters as things come back in.  As one co-worker said to me once, "Everyone wants to be private and everyone wants to talk about their stuff."

 

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Joe Stanganelli
Joe Stanganelli
5/1/2016 11:38:28 AM
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Author
Re: The concern with security
@John: I'm having trouble finding it now, but I remember playing a game a couple years back online wherein you had to guess the most popular passwords.  As you might expect, most of them were variations on the word "password," number sequences, popular names, and popular profanities.

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JohnBarnes
JohnBarnes
5/1/2016 1:44:23 PM
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Platinum
Re: The concern with security
Silly password story that sets out how much things have changed:

When I was in college I had a night job for a while at a Proctor and Gamble sales office, operating a modem (yes, they once needed operators) to download (we didn't call it that yet) the official copies of sales reports to a mainframe, and then running report-writer programs to print a paper copy of a giant report that I would then cut apart, distributing the proper pieces to the proper desks. This required that I have a password.

I did not know that the manager kept a printed list of everyone's password on his desk (not even in a drawer) to make sure we were all following the rules for passwords.

So I got called in for an early morning reprimand for use of an inappropriate password, which, it being P&G, was because my password was ... IvorySoapSinks.

 


When I used to relate that story among my academic and artist buds it was about the bizarre uptightness of the bizworld. Nowadays it's a tale of how weird things used to be: a printed list of everyone's password on the manager's desk. 

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Joe Stanganelli
Joe Stanganelli
5/3/2016 8:30:19 AM
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Author
Re: The concern with security
@John: Reminds me of the BBS (Bulletin Board System -- I wonder how many people here are both old enough and nerdy enough to remember those) days when, if you were a SysOp or Co-SysOp, every users' password (even those users with higher levels of administrative access than you) was viewable in plaintext.  Bizarre.

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dlr5288
dlr5288
4/25/2016 8:18:25 PM
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Platinum
Re: The concern with security
It's crazy how things change!

Now with security everyone has to be so careful when they're putting their things out online or on a device. Even when I'm shopping online I'm so leary about putting my card information out there. It's crazy how easy it is to gain access into people's computers, tablets, etc.

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faryl
faryl
3/31/2016 9:03:04 PM
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Platinum
Re: The concern with security
Then we just have to hope it doesn't become self-aware and smarter than we are! (Starting to veer into X-Files territory!)

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
3/26/2016 2:48:12 PM
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Platinum
Re: The concern with security
@afwriter:

There is a constant debate going on whether what we do using our smart devices or leading towards making our homes smarter is secure enough besides getting to be smart enough. Even here in our Telco forums there has been so much discussion going on from time to time.

But this i ntiative from Verizon appears to be very interesting and promising. The key fact that drew my attention is their talk about their security credentialing covreing all irrespective of what network. We just need to wait and see how this all comes along.

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faryl
faryl
3/26/2016 6:47:38 PM
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Platinum
Re: The concern with security
The security credentialing piece jumped out at me as well. Ideally there will be transparency for consumers to see what the criteria are for obtaining the credentials, to help get a comfort level around how strong the security is for cerified products.

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
3/26/2016 2:51:05 PM
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Platinum
Re: The concern with security
@afwriter:

Forgot to mention in my earlier post. It's very interesting to know about your smart initiative for your home.I will be really interested to know how all that comes out for you. Appreciate if you can share later.

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faryl
faryl
3/26/2016 6:42:34 PM
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Platinum
Re: The concern with security
I couldn't agree more. As much as I love the different solutions IoT offers, I'm still reticent to jump on board because of the potential security exploits. On one hand, as I think someone else mentioned in the comments, physical locks can be picked too; I think my chief concerns are more around privacy. Anything connected to a camera/video gives me pause, because I don't like the idea of someone else being able to use it to watch me or see inside my home. And the more components of our lives we integrate technology into, the more robust a picture our data can reflect our daily activities and actions. It's good to see Verizon is taking intiative to address this - hopefully it reflects the beginning of a trend towards creating more security tools as IoT emmerges.

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Joe Stanganelli
Joe Stanganelli
3/27/2016 6:23:29 PM
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Author
Re: The concern with security
I think IoT security is one of those things that everyone talks about addressing -- but few actually do.  Those that do often address it on the server/cloud side, but that still leaves the vulnerabilities on the device side.

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
3/28/2016 10:50:03 AM
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Platinum
Re: The concern with security
Good Point @Joe. It is very true that more focus and attention is for SErver side or Cloud security than at client / device level. This gap must be filled.

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faryl
faryl
3/28/2016 5:26:48 PM
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Platinum
Re: The concern with security
I remember someone giving a talk on security risks related to viruses about 10 years ago and how surprised people were at the idea of the possibility that use of computerized systems in cars could be a security/safety vulnerability. He gave a hypothetical scenario of using the new technology of connecting devices via Bluetooth at the time. It definitely left an impression on me!

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dlr5288
dlr5288
3/29/2016 1:53:11 PM
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Platinum
Re: The concern with security
I remember being in school and talking about the new devices coming out, maybe a few years ago. Someone mentioned security risks and honestly I thought it could never happen. Obviously I was very wrong. It's scary to think about all that can happen if someone can hack into your computer, phone, etc.

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Joe Stanganelli
Joe Stanganelli
3/30/2016 9:00:01 AM
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Author
Re: The concern with security
@faryl: Reminds me of The Net coming out more than 20 years ago (that Sandra Bullock film), in which EVERYTHING was hackable.  My best friend and I laughed our butts off at how ridiculous that movie was (in 1995, mind you).

Now, it's not so far-fetched at all.

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faryl
faryl
3/31/2016 11:25:30 PM
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Platinum
Re: The concern with security
@Joe I love that movie! Though "Hackers" is still my favorite :)

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Joe Stanganelli
Joe Stanganelli
4/20/2016 7:04:47 PM
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Author
Re: The concern with security
@faryl: I never saw Hackers, but a friend told me about it -- and, along with it, the tip about clicking the receiver on a landline (non-cordless) phone to correspond with numbers being dialed, simulating a rotary phone.

I did see Sneakers, though.  But that was a long time ago.

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faryl
faryl
4/27/2016 4:17:03 PM
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Platinum
Re: The concern with security
Sneakers is another classic! If I remember correctly, Steve Wozniack & Steve Jobs both used to do phone "phreaking" (with a box that imitated dial tones to trick pay phones) back in the early years. So - aside from cheesy movies - maybe a couple of good things developed from security holes!

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dlr5288
dlr5288
4/27/2016 8:40:29 PM
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Platinum
Re: The concern with security
Haha good point!

I feel like Verizon is always going to be working on security, as they should. I don't know how long it will take for security to become unbreakable, but it's slowly getting there!

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Joe Stanganelli
Joe Stanganelli
5/3/2016 8:18:40 AM
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Author
Re: The concern with security
@faryl: I'm not so young that I don't know what phreaking is.

But I'm not so old that I'm convinced I can tell you any stories about it, statute-of-limitations-wise.  ;)

jk!

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faryl
faryl
5/29/2016 1:42:23 AM
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Platinum
Re: The concern with security
LOL!

I'll have to use that next time someone asks me my age: Old enough to know what phreaking is; young enough to still worry about the statute-of-limitations for events that may or may not have occurred back then :-)

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
3/30/2016 11:13:24 AM
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Platinum
Re: The concern with security
@faryl: You are absolutely right.

Connecting  devices via bluetooth / use of computer systems in cars have become kind of bare minimum requirement at this smart age. I recall hearing in news there were occurances where couple of major company cars getting a very poor rateing (or evn degraded?) by consumers. The only reason was - those cars lack smartability features as compared to others. The cars were absolutely fine at the core. So that explains where it is heading to.

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Joe Stanganelli
Joe Stanganelli
3/31/2016 10:07:15 AM
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Author
Re: The concern with security
@ms.a: Reminds me of the Satis smart toilet -- controlled by Bluetooth remotely -- and fully hackable.

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batye
batye
4/1/2016 5:46:35 AM
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Platinum
Re: The concern with security
@Joe Stanganelli  thanks God I did not put any new BT technology in my washroom when my local Home Depot was clearing it out... other way I would be worry when I sit on it :) 

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dlr5288
dlr5288
3/31/2016 5:37:59 PM
User Rank
Platinum
Re: The concern with security
That's interesting.

I have also heard of family and friends not liking a car just because there were little or no smart features in the car. I think, especially today, that consumers just expect to have these smart features. And you're right, it is a big identifier in which way we are heading technologically.

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freehe
freehe
3/31/2016 7:52:52 PM
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Platinum
Re: The concern with security
All this sounds great in theory but if one link in the chain is weak the security measures will not be as effective.

Since services, data, equipment, apss, etc. can be attacked at any point, companies must have properly secured IoT products and services to detect and recover from cyber attacks because hackers will never stop working.

 

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batye
batye
4/1/2016 5:50:51 AM
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Platinum
Re: The concern with security
@freehe  with security is never 100 % totaly secure... always weak link - human factor...

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dlr5288
dlr5288
4/25/2016 8:10:23 PM
User Rank
Platinum
Re: The concern with security
Very true, and good point!

Hackers will never stop attempting to get in. I think, at least for me, that's what's so scary. At any moment someone can get into a phone, computer, etc. It's something that should always be on the top of people's minds.

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faryl
faryl
4/1/2016 12:07:43 AM
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Platinum
Re: The concern with security
Our car is a 2002 model, so I can play cassette tapes but can't play anything from iTunes; if I were buying a new car, I think blue tooth would be a key feature I'd look for!

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Joe Stanganelli
Joe Stanganelli
4/20/2016 7:06:07 PM
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Author
Re: The concern with security
@faryl: To solve that problem, there's a cassette-player adapter you can use to play mp3s and whatnot.  Check it out.

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faryl
faryl
4/27/2016 8:51:00 PM
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Platinum
Re: The concern with security
I just saw this comment and am absolutely delighted to know this is an option!


I'm going to be going on a 3 hour (each way) drive in a couple of weeks - I'm going to be sure to look into getting one of these.


Thank you!

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Joe Stanganelli
Joe Stanganelli
5/4/2016 7:04:45 AM
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Author
Re: The concern with security
@faryl: You're absolutely welcome!  Glad I could help.

For my own part, though, when it comes to drives like those, I prefer to devote at least a modicum of listening time to the traffic reports.  (Ah, alas, if only every major metro area had all-traffic-all-the-time radio stations.)

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faryl
faryl
5/29/2016 1:57:17 AM
User Rank
Platinum
Re: The concern with security
I just (finally) ordered one!

Figured it's worth $6 if it just lasts me the trip up and back down again :-)

(I think I actually had one of these to use with my discman back in the day, now that I think about it)

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Joe Stanganelli
Joe Stanganelli
6/6/2016 12:27:19 PM
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Author
Re: The concern with security
@faryl: So has it come in yet?  How is it working for you?

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Joe Stanganelli
Joe Stanganelli
3/27/2016 6:20:42 PM
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Author
Re: The concern with security
> "While I try to tell myself that IoT devices are often safer than their traditional counterparts (locks and smoke alarms for example)"

In what way are they safer?  I don't see it.  Locks are pickable regardless.  The only difference is maybe you get an alert -- unless, of course, the burglars destroy the mechanism that does that (much the same way alarm system wires get cut or tampered with).  And I'm similarly baffled about the claim regarding smoke alarms.

Can you tell me what I am missing?

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afwriter
afwriter
3/27/2016 7:56:40 PM
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Platinum
Re: The concern with security
It is easier to physically pick a lock than hack one and an IoT smoke alarm can tell you if there is a fire in your house even if you are not home which means you can react faster and possibly save your house.

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Joe Stanganelli
Joe Stanganelli
3/28/2016 8:37:12 AM
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Author
Re: The concern with security
@afwriter: Ah, yes.  Especially good point about the smoke alarm.

But what makes an IoT lock unpickable?

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afwriter
afwriter
3/28/2016 9:28:01 AM
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Platinum
Re: The concern with security
Not that it is that difficult to figure out for someone who really wants in your house, but often times the physical lock is hidden on IoT locks.

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
3/26/2016 2:55:41 PM
User Rank
Platinum
Any Service Provider
IoT Security Credentialing, which will be available on ThingSpace in May, adds an "over-the-top (OTT) layer of security to aid developers in protecting devices and applications regardless of the service provider or type of transport -- cellular, WiFi, wireline, etc. -- that's being used." 

This is really interesting to know. Hopefully Verizon's extra layer of credentialing will play good role in terms of making security more manageable and less woryysome.

This OTT aiding developers regardless of SP is a cool thing.

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
3/26/2016 3:09:53 PM
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Platinum
Very Informative Interview
@Mike: Really interesting and insightful interview about Verizon's security intiatiive. Thanks for sharing.

He clearly outlined about the basic core elements like Cloud infrastructure, Network and device. He explained how security credentialing applies to the device by applying certificate authentication process. Block chain technology as he explained as adiitional layer is very appealing. And lastly as he explained about Fiber build makes super sense thinking about exponential increase of data needs at present and so dta analytics.

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dlr5288
dlr5288
3/28/2016 7:49:08 PM
User Rank
Platinum
Security
I like the fact that he states that when it comes to security there is never enough to be done. It makes me feel a little better knowing that is their mindset because it's true.

Security is a huge problem and should always be on the top of everyone's mind. That's one negative moving towards a more digital world. It's that much easier for hackers to get information.

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vnewman
vnewman
3/30/2016 11:41:55 AM
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Platinum
Re: Security
At our company, our we handle a lot of people's personal indentifying information and our manta is - it's not if, but when someone gets in, we have to keep them from getting out with the data.

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dlr5288
dlr5288
3/30/2016 4:09:05 PM
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Platinum
Re: Security
Yes, absolutely!

It's always great to have a plan B. The initial plan, obviously, is to have no one be able to hack into any device, but it can happen. When it does happen, it's important for that person not to be able to put that information out into the world. People need to act quickly.

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Joe Stanganelli
Joe Stanganelli
3/31/2016 10:53:02 AM
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Author
Re: Security
"The initial plan, obviously, is to have no one be able to hack into any device"

To be precise, that's pretty wishful thinking -- but I'm being a bit pedantic now.  The ideal plan should be to reduce the attack area and vulnnerabilities as much as feasible while maintaining the necessary accessibility, and from there implement and maintain additional security factors to protect against intruders once a breach occurs.

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dlr5288
dlr5288
3/31/2016 2:43:49 PM
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Platinum
Re: Security
yes, that's true.

I guess I was just thinking in reguards to best case scenario. You're right though. I think they just try and maintain security in a way that even if hackers get through that the information stored will not be shared.

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Joe Stanganelli
Joe Stanganelli
3/31/2016 10:06:00 AM
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Author
Re: Security
@vnewman: That's a terrific way of looking at it.  Far too many organizations practice M&M security -- hard on the outside, soft in the middle.  There have to be layers, there have to be what-ifs, there have to be contingencies.

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vnewman
vnewman
3/31/2016 1:20:20 PM
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Platinum
Re: Security
@Joe - I like that analogy!  You are right about the layers.  We are 9 layers deep.  Our CIO's mantra is "We don't want to be on the front page of the New York times."

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Joe Stanganelli
Joe Stanganelli
4/20/2016 6:52:36 PM
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Author
Re: Security
@vnewman: Thanks, but I can't take credit for coming up with it.  It's become a fairly common term in the industry over the past few years.

As for being on the front page of the NYT, I usually hear that with the WSJ, but the point is the same.

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JohnBarnes
JohnBarnes
3/29/2016 7:26:01 AM
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Platinum
About the "progress" in "analytics"
In the last section of this very interesting piece, Bartolomeo seems to lay out a pathway of progress from descriptive through predictive to prescriptive analytics. I suspect that's because he's often talking to investors (and journalists!) who love a good progress narrative. But progress in an intellectual area like data analytics doesn't happen in the way that is implied, with descriptive analytics becoming better until they burst their bonds to become predictive and then eventually surge on to become prescriptive.  Data analytics are not a set of ladder rungs to be climbed, but more like the legs of a three legged stool.

As descriptive analytics becomes better, reverse-GIGO makes the predictions closer to reality, so that even without advances specificaly in predictive analytics, the predictions are more trustworthy. As that happens, those more-reliable predictions make the "if you do--->then you get" that underlies prescriptive analytics much more reliable as well.  But all three were there from the beginning or they wouldn't be there at all. Descriptive analytics is your accountant telling you you're broke and about to be bankrupt; predictive analytics is telling you how soon you'll be bankrupt and how much beter things will be if you change what you're doing; and prescriptive analytics is solving the prediction table or equations to find the course of action that runs the least risk of bankruptcy, the greatest chance of becoming rich, or (more likely) the thing that balances those opportunities and risks most in accord with your values (which presumably is a scale running from "Whooopie!" to providing for your great-grandchildren to go to Harvard).

You wouldn't hire your accountant just to tell you you're broke (you might know already and anyway you'd find out soon enough); you want them to tell you what's going to happen and how to get the best outcome. You also wouldn't hire an accountant who only told you the "right thing" to do without looking at your books. There's an interdependency in all three branches of analytics, and they progress together, not separately, even if we usually build from the descriptive side first.

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