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Quick methodological question
How were the weights set for the three quality factors in the final model? Assumed uniform, correlated to survey data, forced ranking from survey data? (I've seen all three in other attempts to develop objective performance scores). And were the four potential interaction terms included in at least the early drafts of the model?
Sorry to be a nag about this, but I have seen far too many cases where Ph.D/gold data is plugged into a 9th-grade/tin model. The ability to monitor quality in a near-objective way on such a fine-grain scale is a great research tool from which everyone should be able to learn a lot -- but if the data passes through a model that isn't as good as the data, what comes out will be no better than the model, at best.
Re: Quick methodological question
JohnBarnes
8/11/2016 7:31:42 AM
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Re: Quick methodological question
Aha. After looking through the white paper, the basis for both choosing the three factors, and for weighting them equally, was asking a largish sample of viewers what most bothered them and picking the three things that got the most votes. That's a pretty good way to do a very preliminary study, but for better work over the long run, there really needs to be a followup correlating pairwise comparisons by consumers with purposely varied technical aspects (like the 3 factors but probably not restricted to them), singly and in combinations.
As it is, the engineers were mostly able to secure an agreement that the engineers would work on things that engineers like to work on because they're easy to measure and don't directly involve asking cranky, difficult people.
As the white paper notes, getting real human measures of human satisfaction is difficult and expensive. Unfortunately, for this sort of research to be a genuinely good guide in prioritizing development, it's also highly necessary.
DHagar
8/11/2016 10:15:24 PM
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Re: Quick methodological question
@JohnBarnes, it sounds as if your solid recommendation would better direct the "investments" of Huawei and their engineering team. It also appears that if they build this "research capability", along with their solutions, they would further gain market recognition and validated consumer acceptance that they are delivering services that consumers perfer.
Sounds like this is a great suggestion for a true "value proposition" for Huawei and further excellence!
Re: Quick methodological question
@JohnBarnes: Not only agreed, but maybe you've stumbled upon how we should be deciding our Caption Contests!
(Not that I'm complaining.) ;)
faryl
8/31/2016 11:21:41 PM
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Re: Quick methodological question
You definitely should be the last person complaining about that! LOL!
faryl
8/31/2016 11:20:46 PM
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Re: Quick methodological question
Especially since they aren't just using the info for marketing decisions or even business direction - the info is being used for choices towards standardization.
Re: Quick methodological question
faryl,
Excellent point -- there's much more at stake here than just how well the system will be accepted.
freehe
8/27/2016 10:15:05 PM
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Re: Quick methodological question
freehe
8/27/2016 10:19:44 PM
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vMOS Aims to Give Telcos
One problem is that KPIs cannot determine if a user is actually watching the content. A user could access content but may walk away for 15-30 minutes to do somehing else, however this is still viewed or assumed that the user is actually watching the content.
Unfortunately, they will probably not be anyway to determine KPIs for accessed content vs. actually viewed content.
Video KPIs are just best estimates since the content can come from different sources, platforms and geographic locations.
I agree industry standards are needed.
dlr5288
8/30/2016 3:04:23 PM
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Re: vMOS Aims to Give Telcos
I totally agree!
I think that a lot of the time content isn't actually being watched because the consumer is doing one thing or another, yet it's classified as that content being fully watched and understood. Which isn't always the case..
Re: vMOS Aims to Give Telcos
@dlr: Indeed.
Slice-of-life case in point right here: (link)
dlr5288
8/31/2016 8:59:54 PM
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Re: vMOS Aims to Give Telcos
Yes, thanks for the link!
It's just difficult to calculate who is actually watching these things!!
dcawrey
9/3/2016 12:11:23 PM
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Re: vMOS Aims to Give Telcos
It's amazing when I think about all the people I now see in public places viewing video. People are spending less time just sitting down and watchin content – they want everything on the go. Techology at this point just needs to keep up.
batye
9/5/2016 12:43:17 AM
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Re: vMOS Aims to Give Telcos
@dcawrey interesting I do hope it will started happening everywhere :) as it good thing - how I see it :)
Re: vMOS Aims to Give Telcos
@dcawrey: Indeed, it makes one wonder why people complain about the rudeness of people who prefer their phones to human interaction... You're asking people to choose the entire Internet over you. ;)
(Of course, I'm one to talk. My girlfriend is often pretty much glued to her phone.)
dlr5288
9/30/2016 3:18:45 PM
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Re: vMOS Aims to Give Telcos
I agree! And I think it's just going to get worse and worse. People want things so quickly and as you said "on the go" that technology has a lot to do in reguards to keeping up with it.
batye
2/5/2017 11:40:20 PM
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Re: vMOS Aims to Give Telcos
@dlr5288 interesting point... as things do change and consumers want it now... instant gratification... and Co.'s and technologies does try to accommodate this trend....
dlr5288
2/28/2017 2:14:06 PM
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Re: vMOS Aims to Give Telcos
Yes! I understand that consumers are always looking for the next best thing, but that makes companies push out products fast without maybe giving the consumer the best product they could give.
batye
3/2/2017 1:03:27 AM
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Re: vMOS Aims to Give Telcos
@dlr5288 Co. trying to cash on the fab/bzz/wave but if the product keep failing it does affect everyone at the end... and profits at the end goes down... as consumers vote with they money this days
dlr5288
3/30/2017 11:01:25 AM
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Re: vMOS Aims to Give Telcos
Absolutely! And I think it's important to put a product out in a timely manner, but if the product is garbage then who cares how fast it was put out?
batye
4/2/2017 3:18:17 PM
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Re: vMOS Aims to Give Telcos
@dlr5288 the sad reality hypes create idea let sell it now half baked items as we may not have a day after to see it or live it...
dlr5288
4/27/2017 2:13:01 PM
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Re: vMOS Aims to Give Telcos
True! The hype definitely has something to do with how fast a product gets put out! I would just rather it take longer and absolutely love the product.
batye
5/2/2017 4:19:08 AM
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Re: vMOS Aims to Give Telcos
@dlr5288 yes, but it getting from bad to worst as everyone trying to emulate Nintendo Mini classic... in china you have many new clones of it this days called Famicon mini... but they quality of one time use... it like you use it once and next day unit is dead as door stopper...
dlr5288
5/30/2017 2:54:05 PM
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Re: vMOS Aims to Give Telcos
Yeah I agree I definitely do think it's getting worse. It's crazy to lay for something for a one day use!
batye
6/4/2017 7:23:20 PM
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Re: vMOS Aims to Give Telcos
@dlr5288 I see it as sad reality cashing on the hype but leaving customer to hold on the empty bag with the door stopper...
dlr5288
6/28/2017 12:25:40 PM
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Re: vMOS Aims to Give Telcos
It only hurts the company though. By doing that to customers, it's not going to have them come running back is it?
batye
7/3/2017 2:38:32 AM
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Re: vMOS Aims to Give Telcos
@dlr5288 end result some of the Co. already went belly up or on the brink of it... example in my mind would be Co. what use to sell custom made xbox 360 controllers for pro FPS gamers...
dlr5288
7/31/2017 1:13:14 PM
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Re: vMOS Aims to Give Telcos
I know companies want to keep the hype up and leave consumers with suspense. Too much of it will definitely cause them to walk away..
batye
8/4/2017 10:58:44 AM
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Re: vMOS Aims to Give Telcos
@dlr5288 as the end Co. end up with almost no sales... as consumers give up on waiting for a big hype - it was just taking to long... plus prices was too hight just too hight...
dlr5288
8/30/2017 12:02:48 PM
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Re: vMOS Aims to Give Telcos
Exactly! The hype was too long and then when the product finally does emerge it's usually way too expensive...
batye
9/3/2017 6:25:19 PM
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Re: vMOS Aims to Give Telcos
@dlr5288 yes, as Co. try to cash it on the hype like example - mini nintendo classic in Canada if you find in the store it is over $100 + tax but almost the same clone - mini nintendo on ebay from HK going under $20 no tax... personally I would not buy it from ebay... I prefer original... but price 100 vs 20 does make me think... what else nintendo doing???
dlr5288
9/28/2017 10:38:14 AM
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Re: vMOS Aims to Give Telcos
That's crazy! Yeah the price difference is definitely interesting...
batye
10/2/2017 3:37:45 AM
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Re: vMOS Aims to Give Telcos
@dlr5288 yes but at the same time it create market for retro-gaming RPi with adds poping on facebook "
retropie mini NES system with a working game tray it uses an NFC reader embedded in the the game tray i have 3D printed mini games that have NFC chips inside them and what ever game you want that to be you just put on the NFC chip and put the mini game cart inside the system and it loads that game just like the real NES the game can be pressed down and it will click down in place just like the real NES the power and reset buttons work and the power led lights up heres a video of what my nes does but i really think mine is better but this is where the idea came from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dgnD93pwX0 "
I would not recommend it as it would be supporting PIRACY... but it an example the way Pirates respond to market shortadge and bad quality product
dlr5288
10/30/2017 12:27:20 PM
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Re: vMOS Aims to Give Telcos
Thanks for this! Yeah it’s cool to see all the differences in prices.
faryl
8/31/2016 11:28:47 PM
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Re: vMOS Aims to Give Telcos
Especially on mobile devices - there are way more distractions & things going on than when some is watching content on TV. (Which I personally have enough trouble focusing on as it is - sometimes I get distracted, rewind so I can see what I missed, rewind too far and then get re-distracted by the time the part I missed plays again!)
faryl
8/31/2016 11:25:12 PM
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Re: vMOS Aims to Give Telcos
I think that's prevalent in any measurements of viewership.
Even the Nielsen ratings for TV are flawed in their measurement approach (though that's more because it relies on self-reporting vs. a more objective form of measurement)
Adi
8/12/2016 6:02:19 AM
User Rank Author
What about fixed line?
@mohamed - your article references mobile video consumption statistics - is the vMOS solution aimed only at mobile, and not fixed line? It's a complex eco-system, because while mobile networks are the most susceptible to QoE degredation, we also have challenges for fixed line video delivery. And our research suggests a lot of video consumption on mobile devices is actually via Wifi.
Re: What about fixed line?
agree, it's a complex ecosystem and is hard to slice it :-)
Actually Mobile vMOS is a subset of U-vMOS or Unified vMOS. U-vMOS is the framework of video experience evaluation in general for all screens using different kinds of access: Phone, Pad; TV; PC; Camera;...
Adi
8/22/2016 8:30:41 AM
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Re: What about fixed line?
Ah, thanks for clarifying, Mohamed
Adi
8/12/2016 6:11:53 AM
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Timeline for phase II
@mohamed - what is the timeline for the Phase II release, or is that TBD? It's clear 4K/UHD is advancing rapidly and will have an impact, and as the study group plan implies, HEVC will be an important enabler and go hand in hand. So more clarity would be beneficial sooner rather than later for the industry.
Also - is vMOS based on the ITU J 341 reccomendation? And if so, how does it play with ITU J247/J343 which I understand is a newer reccomendations for video quality?
Question: Mobile vs. Laptop/Desktop
Question: In terms of these standards, considering the ongoing exponential growth of mobile video, shouldn't we consider viewing on a standard-size monitor compared to watching video on a mobile device? There's a big difference, after all, in terms of both the viewing experience as well as how savvy content producers strategize for each one.
Should we have *two* standards?
Re: Question: Mobile vs. Laptop/Desktop
Yes, indeed the required data rate and net quality differ for different used terminal. However, Huawei thinks that the tool should reflect that. Single standard tool satisfies many experience angles
Adi
9/1/2016 4:28:05 AM
User Rank Author
vMOS-based pricing
@mohamed - a new study from Huawei and Ovum suggests that operators should look at QoE based pricing for video services. Do you see a role for this, and do you think there is a role for vMOS for such services?
Re: vMOS-based pricing
Operators now are looking into new wys to price their services. moving away from volume-based pricing. Examples of this are value-based pricing in which they price based on accessing certain popular apps like FB/TW. The other trend is experience-based pricing in which consumers can subscribe to plans based on speed (Mbps) not volume (GB). Although this makes a lot of sense but i personally see it confusing to normal consumers. It took the industry too long to teach consumers the meaning of GB. now we need to teach them something else.
My recommendations is to price video watching experience, for example there would be a plan for ability to download/upload HD video in certain time/places..etc. vMOS will certainly play an important role to help operators benchmak video experience in their network to come up with the right offering.
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