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DHagar
DHagar
12/22/2016 10:23:48 PM
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Self driving cars..
@JohnBarnes, I love your further analysis.  Exactly - it is at an entirely different level.

The capabilities of machine learning - AI - establish a structure that actually builds more on facts that can be learned and then directed by human decisions.  I believe it opens the doors to both more "efficient' decision making as well as better results from the decisions we make.

You should lead an AI Institute - your vision is excellent!

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JohnBarnes
JohnBarnes
12/22/2016 3:52:12 PM
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Self driving cars..
Ariella, I think a better system might be to create rules that produce, on the average, results that least outrage the person's relevant community. And I can even sort of see a vision of how that could be done over time. Which is giving me an idea for a story I think.

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Ariella
Ariella
12/22/2016 3:21:42 PM
User Rank
Author
Re: Self driving cars..
@JohnBarnes I'm glad I'm not the one who has to make the call on when a program has to decide who is to be sacrificed so others may live. It is a serious question with no easy answers. Elsewhere I suggested that Spock's statement of Vulcan belief (basically Utilitarianism) could provide a guide because in that case you're just going for the many versus the few or the one without factoring in other value questions (like the ages of the people involved).

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JohnBarnes
JohnBarnes
12/22/2016 3:02:56 PM
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Self driving cars..
Ariella, Yep, and because another advantage of self driving cars will be their ability to constantly network (so that your car knows that the car 200 yards out front around the curve just hit a deer), they'll have to solve philosophic questions with much more information than we have to cope with--knowing that the car behind has a baby in it and the one to the side contains an uninsured driver trying to make it to the first day on a job after a year of unemployment. You'll be lucky if it doesn't know the squirrel's life story too!

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Ariella
Ariella
12/22/2016 8:44:13 AM
User Rank
Author
Re: Self driving cars..
@JohnBarnes you bring up an issue that actually has ethical ramifications for programming autonmous cars. It may be just about instinctual for us to brake for animals (there used to even be a bumper sticker that declared that). However, there are situations in which braking or even swerving to avoid hitting an animal or even a person can cause more damage because there's a car right behind you as well as in the place you'd swerve into. That brings up the Trolley Problem. Do you avoid hitting something at all costs, even if it means that greater damage to human life would occur? Do you make a calculated decision to go ahead and hit the dog or even a person because there's no way of avoiding it without risking the life of everyone in your car?  A computer can go through all these scenarios and odds pretty quickly but would still need programming to direct in a no-win (at least not with no caualties) scenario.

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JohnBarnes
JohnBarnes
12/21/2016 10:09:17 PM
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Self driving cars..
Amplifying DHagar here, something that isn't immediately obvious because we're not used to it yet is that a fast enough set of processors and memory, with a varied enough database of memories, will be much less a creature of habit than a human driver. We tend not to think about how many of the low-level components of our activities are habitual, but they are deeply so, so much that we have a hard time thinking about them if we have to.  (How do you know this letter is a B? How much do you let out the clutch, how quickly, to start out from a stop light in first gear, and how much do you vary that if there might be glare ice? How do you get a baby safely from the sofa into your arms? Etc. etc. etc.)

Humans do most things via an assemblage of habits -- but the assembly itself is also a set of habits. Machines are, or soon can be, fast and flexible enough to solve every problem ad hoc with something like an optimal solution for each situation. (Small dog suddenly in road. Solve with brake? Swerve? Take foot off accelerator and wait to see where dog is going? Swerve and brake to stop faster or further from dog? You only have so much time and changing your mind takes some of that, so you get one try. The machine could very well go brake--no swerve--no swerve back--okay now brake--now throw reverse into partial bootlegger turn--hard brake--okay, stopped, dog unhurt--in the same time it took you to choose between braking and swerving. And you probably won't have any reason to do a bootlegger turn ten times in your life, whereas your car will remember how to do one perfectly, even adjusting for a patch of ice on the road or loose gravel, and have it as an option.

We tend to think of robots as being robotic, but in the long term, "robot" is going to mean "extremely fast and flexible with a lot of options."

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DHagar
DHagar
12/21/2016 8:33:19 PM
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Self driving cars..
@Ariella,  I think that is very true and really the new opportunity to truly transform the systems and the public use.  I believe that is where the new work and opportunity begins.

Great focus!

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Ariella
Ariella
12/21/2016 9:00:14 AM
User Rank
Author
Re: Self driving cars..
@DHagar to keep up with the potential of technology, we may have to devise and adopt new models of interacting, to bring the human and machine capabilities together for optimal results.

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DHagar
DHagar
12/20/2016 10:11:08 PM
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Self driving cars..
@Ariella, I like your perspective!  We will truly be smart if we figure out how to use AI to augment the Human Intelligence - but we have to find new ways of learning in that mode.

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Ariella
Ariella
12/20/2016 9:49:35 PM
User Rank
Author
Re: Self driving cars..
@Dhagar Indeed. AI has been making headlines quite a lot lately, and it is coming into its own as a way to aid marketers and customer service reps. But it is still regarded as a tool rather than as a replacement for humans. It may be currently regarded as the computer that retrieved answers to question in the 1957 (nearly half a centuy before Google!) movie "Deskset." It wasn't meant to put the women who worked the office out of a job but just to make them more efficient.   

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