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 clrmoney
7/19/2017 12:11:58 PM User Rank Platinum 
Many Smart City Applications
It's very interesting about the street lights; I wonder what they would do mabe having mini camera in the lights or and automated monitor that tells you to stop go etc. So Smart city is mainly a plus for me but there may be some negatives to it.
 vnewman
7/19/2017 6:26:25 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Many Smart City Applications
I keep thinking the author means "stop/traffic lights" not "street lights" since street lights don't "change." Is that correct?
 elizabethv
7/20/2017 9:05:25 AM User Rank Platinum
Re: Many Smart City Applications
@vnewman - correct. He means traffic lights. It might have been the verbage used by the person being interviewed.
 Kishore Jethanandani
7/20/2017 11:30:18 AM User Rank Author
Re: Many Smart City Applications
The street lights are the source of the data which is aggregated to determine the overall flow and the timing of the stop lights. Sorry, if it was not clear enough. Each street light is able to sense how much traffic is flowing across the street and its pace. The data is sent to a central point to determine when to change the stop lights to minimize congestion.
vnewman
7/20/2017 4:53:15 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Many Smart City Applications
Got it! Very interesting indeed. If it can detect pace, it can detect areas where traveling over the speed limit is prevalent and perhaps direct the use of speed traps to those locations.
 Ariella
7/20/2017 5:12:32 PM User Rank Author
Re: Many Smart City Applications
@vnewman that concern already was born with E-Z Pass, particularly the type found on the Turnpike that takes a read at various points. It's easy math to calculate the speed of a car based on that and so find out if it was speeding. Supposedly, it is not used for that end.
elizabethv
7/21/2017 9:01:44 AM User Rank Platinum
Re: Many Smart City Applications
@Ariella - Traffic on Google maps is determined by the speed at which our phones are moving in our cars. So realistically, if the government wanted to - they could coerce Google into giving them that information and use it to catch speeders.
vnewman
7/26/2017 2:25:01 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Many Smart City Applications
@Ariella - Exactly! And we are seeing the same kind of sentiments from our enterpise users when installing Mobile Iron Device Management on their smartphones.
Even though the company explicity states it only collects specific types of information, IT IS STILL POSSIBLE to collect anything and everything on the device. Most people do not trust that just because you aren't collecting something now, you won't start doing so in the future. It opens the door. Ariella
7/26/2017 2:29:08 PM User Rank Author
Re: Many Smart City Applications
@vnewman Yes, I recently interviewed the CEO of Centiment who said part of the benefit it got from being in Sprint's Corporate Accelerator program was access to data: "As a telecom provider, Sprint was able to provide data about people's smartphone usage that gives a picture of individuals in particular places. Unless users opt out, Brown explained, every time they use the phone, they are sharing data about their usage. "
elizabethv
7/27/2017 9:18:39 AM User Rank Platinum
Re: Many Smart City Applications
@vnewman - My brother will actually sit and read all of the terms and conditions for everything he agrees to. (Not saying we shouldn't all be doing this, but I don't have that kind of time.) He refuses to agree to just about any app on his phone that wants access to the microphone or camera - which sincerly limits the apps he can have on any phone. And I tell him it's so you can make a phone call through the app, but he doesn't care. He's convinced someone is going to try listening to his conversations. On the one hand, this makes me think he's crazy. On the other hand, I do I have a sticker over the camera lense on my laptop....
 Joe Stanganelli
7/27/2017 10:04:24 AM User Rank Author
Re: Many Smart City Applications
@elizabethv: As a lawyer, I tend to read everything I "agree to" carefully -- except privacy policies and terms and conditions these days (unless I'm interested from an academic perspective)...because personal experience has demonstrated that it's best to just assume that just about every privacy policy and online T&C agreement says some version of "We get to do whatever we want with your data. Neener neener."*
* Not legal advice. Dear God, definitely not legal advice.  afwriter
7/27/2017 11:03:58 AM User Rank Platinum
Re: Many Smart City Applications
Hahaha @Joe, love the disclaimer. I have to agree with you, I stopped reading terms and conditions a long time ago because they all read about the same and the fact that they will collect your data is pretty much implied now. I just read the other day that Roombas are going to start sending maps of our floor plans to Amazon.
elizabethv
7/28/2017 8:40:52 AM User Rank Platinum
Re: Many Smart City Applications
@afwriter - I think I draw the line at a Roomba giving away the floor plans of my house. In fact I know I do. I'll stick to an old fashioned vaccuum. I could use the exercise anyway.
afwriter
7/28/2017 10:33:04 AM User Rank Platinum
Re: Many Smart City Applications
I know right? I have a lot of animals so I would like one to keep up pet hair collection around the house, but there is absolutely no need for them to record that data much less share it.
Kishore Jethanandani
7/31/2017 2:28:00 AM User Rank Author
Re: Many Smart City Applications
About privacy, I have got to say that from the time I have been in the SF Bay Area, eighteen years now, I have heard this refrain in the context of at each stage of the evolution of the technology. There was a time when people did not think it is a good idea to be on Facebook. Every single time, technology companies offer a deal and consumers grab it. All the freebies on Facebook are so irresistible. Indeed, it has become a part of the fabric of everyday life. It will happen again with IOT.
elizabethv
8/1/2017 8:48:40 AM User Rank Platinum
Re: Many Smart City Applications
@Kishore - I just hope people don't end up volunteering freedoms only to regret the situation later. As in the hands of the wrong people, something like the floorplan of my house, or a detailed list of my locations day-in and day-out, could eventually be used in quite the sinister fashion.
Kishore Jethanandani
8/1/2017 9:36:50 AM User Rank Author
Re: Many Smart City Applications
@Elizabethv: I am not saying that the risks are not there or that vigilance is not needed. As with other things, we weigh the costs and benefits and make decisions. So far, most people have been comfortable. The situation could well change as has happened with NSA.
elizabethv
8/3/2017 9:19:54 AM User Rank Platinum
Re: Many Smart City Applications
@Kishore - Oh I know. Vigilance is certainly needed. Though part of me worries the whole of the country seems rather complacent anymore. It wouldn't surprise me at all if our liberties just floated away while we were all watching an MLM video on Facebook Live. ;-)
 dlr5288
11/29/2017 3:20:45 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Many Smart City Applications
I definitely agree. I think a lot of the time any more people become so focused on all this new technology and the next best thing that they forget what’s happening around them..
elizabethv
7/28/2017 8:39:50 AM User Rank Platinum
Re: Many Smart City Applications
@Joe - First, lol. That is hilarious. Second, that seems to be the kind of thing my brother is trying to avoid. (And to think, he's never even read 1984!) He's one of the few milenials not on Facebook. Honestly I find it annoying, sharing pictures of my kids with him takes at least an additional 30 seconds. The nerve! Realistically, at this point you almost have to stop caring - and that's where the get you. Because it's hard to have a job, or be involved in normal society without agreeing to those Terms & Conditions. So if you can get by with some kind of job that is happy to have you in any capacity, that's awesome. But even my grandparents had to reluctantly get can email address so my grandpa could apply for jobs at The Goodwill and Ace. It's just part of life anymore.
vnewman
8/7/2017 6:13:01 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Many Smart City Applications
@Joe - I work for a Global law firm and we do some labor and employment law. As you can imagine, this is the CSG/Practice group most vehimently opposed to agreeing to anyone/anything accessing any device/data where they may have some personal information residing as well.
They have seen one too many litigations where employee data was dredged up auxillary to what the company said they were in the process of collecting.  PhilMiller333
11/23/2017 8:38:19 AM User Rank Steel
Re: Many Smart City Applications
@vnewman we see the same issues all the time at Comcast. Our guys are very cautious about what they share with who and when for the exact same reason... personal information being included in information to be shared for a project. Looks like your guys are on top of their stuff.
vnewman
11/28/2017 10:08:06 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Many Smart City Applications
@PhilMiller. It’s an uphill battle with no easy answers. Of course you can see where they are coming from with regard to their personal privacy but the firm needs to be able to properly manage their mobile devices especially for security’s sake. Typically we offer them a “firm phone”
As a workaround but no one likes the idea of carrying around two devices. Some folks have held a strong stance and said they just wouldn’t have the firm email on their phone and when they left the office they’d just be out of touch. Not good for the clients either.
Banging head on desk...
Kishore Jethanandani
7/20/2017 5:13:36 PM User Rank Author
Re: Many Smart City Applications
At the moment, I don't think compliance with speed limits is a priority. It will take more than one pole to detect speeding and processing that data might be too expensive for the benefit realized.
However, it is well known that delinquent behavior of a few drivers can cause massive congestion. When drivers don't keep sufficient distance from other cars and make it difficult to change lanes, congestion is more likely. The cameras on street lights can potentially help to detect the behavior that predicts congestion. Kishore Jethanandani
7/20/2017 5:19:39 PM User Rank Author
Re: Many Smart City Applications
The following article discusses some of the behavioral issues that cause congestion which could be ameliorated by data.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/one-driver-can-prevent-a-traffic-jam-1476204858  mpouraryan
7/20/2017 5:21:19 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Many Smart City Applications
Let's hope they continue to work to mitigate it as best as they can.
elizabethv
7/21/2017 9:25:28 AM User Rank Platinum
Re: Many Smart City Applications
Kishore,
That was a really interesting article! Though it definitely seems counter-intuitive. If you see traffic stopping ahead, and you create a gap between you and the car in front of you (the only way I can even see to do this is to slow down yourself.) But I can see the cars behind you going around you and taking up that space when you slow down to create it. This will only work until a few cars have filled it up and then the cars behind you will create the jam. Also a lot of people seem to think the whole road is a race track and letting another car in front of them is akin to conceeding the race. And then you have the zipper merge..... Ugh. Traffic. But driverless cars scares me far more than traffic ever will. (True story, a Tesla just went all the way through a house in my neighborhood yesterday, and there is question of it being set to driverless when it happened.) Ariella
7/21/2017 9:40:54 AM User Rank Author
Re: Many Smart City Applications
@elizabethv under Bloomberg's mayorship, NYC got a lot more cameras for security. It's not nearly as covered as London is, but there are many areas where you would be on camera whether you like it or not.
Kishore Jethanandani
7/21/2017 5:39:28 PM User Rank Author
Re: Many Smart City Applications
@elizabethv: At the end of the day, the rule will work if new cultural norms are set. It's like observing the right of way rules. I was so relieved when I first noticed its ingenuity. Back in New Delhi, there was no such thing and when the traffic volumes grew, congestion was compounded when each driver tried to get ahead regardless of the impact it had on the traffic flow overall.
 faryl
7/24/2017 8:22:03 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Many Smart City Applications
This is really interesting. I wonder which intersections have this implemented - local traffic in San Diego gets really congested based on (IMHO) poor traffic light management. I'm curious to see if it's better in areas that are using the new technology.
Kishore Jethanandani
7/24/2017 9:25:08 PM User Rank Author
Re: Many Smart City Applications
They mentioned 30 intersections. They probably have that information on the city site. It was not relevant for the purposes of this article.
faryl
7/25/2017 7:12:44 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Many Smart City Applications
I'll have to check out the San Diego city site and see what info I can find. :)
elizabethv
7/20/2017 9:09:36 AM User Rank Platinum
Exciting!!
Am I the only one that finds this prospect ridiculously exiting? Efficiency is a HUGE deal for me, and one of the biggest wasters of my time is sitting in traffic. I can't stand red lights when there is no cross traffic. I would hope AI being used at intersections would also have the ability to at least shorten the change time when there is no one going in that direction. I know some already seem to have that ability, when the lights change really quickly. But this needs to be city-wide. Before we moved to Denver, my husband would brag about the timed lights down Broadway and how if you went exactly the speed limit you could hit every light on green. I personally still haven't experienced this five years later, but I'd imagine it worked out for him at least a time or two to have influenced the story. Lol.
afwriter
7/20/2017 10:15:57 AM User Rank Platinum
Re: Exciting!!
@elizabethv I am with you it is an exciting prospect as I too have wasted too much of my life at red lights. Still, I have my reservations...
afwriter
7/20/2017 10:18:10 AM User Rank Platinum
Big Brother
<The replacement of aging street lights with LED lights not only created an opportunity to significantly lower energy costs but also to gather data by making them aware of their surroundings with audio, video and environmental sensors>
I love the idea of smarter traffic lights, but the thing that always pops into my mind when I read stuff like "audio and video sensors" is, "Who is using those?" Or rather, who could use them and for what purposes. Kishore Jethanandani
7/20/2017 12:31:32 PM User Rank Author
Re: Big Brother
The audio can be used, for example, to sense gun shots for crime prevention. Video has many uses such as emergency vehicles knowing ahead of time where the choke points are...Not all of the applications are explained in the article because I had to work within the 1000 word limit.
Ariella
7/20/2017 12:58:06 PM User Rank Author
Re: Big Brother
@Kishore would that work as a complment to or as replacement for services like http://www.shotspotter.com/?
Ariella
7/20/2017 12:58:07 PM User Rank Author
Re: Big Brother
@Kishore would that work as a complment to or as replacement for services like http://www.shotspotter.com/?
Kishore Jethanandani
7/20/2017 2:01:26 PM User Rank Author
Re: Big Brother
Something like shot spotter will be included in a larger package. Some cities already have them as part of smart lighting.
afwriter
7/20/2017 1:21:29 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Big Brother
I am sure that there are a million great uses for them, just like the ones @Kishore points out, I'm not arguing that. I just don't want them to be used to catch J-walkers and listen in on pedestrians' personal conversations.
Kishore Jethanandani
7/20/2017 2:05:24 PM User Rank Author
Re: Big Brother
Hah! They are already having a hard time processing the information that they are prioritizing. If pedestrians' conversation was included, I don't think the current networks can handle it. In the future, they might but you will probably need an application to separate them from the rest of the information flow. So restrictions could be put on applications eavesdropping on pedestrians.
Ariella
7/20/2017 2:09:17 PM User Rank Author
Re: Big Brother
@Kishore or perhaps they will simply have to extend the warning: not only may you be caught on camera, but your voice may be recorde, as well. That's probably considered sufficient from a legal point of view.
Kishore Jethanandani
7/20/2017 2:11:39 PM User Rank Author
Re: Big Brother
From my understanding of the law, you need the permission of the person who is being recorded otherwise it is illegal.
Ariella
7/20/2017 2:14:24 PM User Rank Author
Re: Big Brother
@Kishore we may need to get Joe's take on this. I should think it's the same as capturing people on camera. So long as you warn them, they give tacit agreement by entering the area. The same should apply to passing by something that could pick up on their voice. It's illegal to record a phone conversation without a person's knowledge, but consider how many times we are told that the phone conversation we are about to have "may be recorded?" Simply continuing with the call is consenting.
mpouraryan
7/20/2017 5:06:56 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Big Brother
It is imperative for all policymakers to embrace smart cities. It is at the heart of transformation--isn't it? ..and why not?
elizabethv
7/21/2017 9:04:01 AM User Rank Platinum
Re: Big Brother
@Ariella - And that becomes a catch 22, because maybe you don't want the call recorded, but you do want your customer service issue resolved. But you can't do one without the other. Perhaps you don't want your voice recorded, or your picture taken in an intersection. But it's the only route you can take to work so you don't have much say in the matter.
Ariella
7/21/2017 9:39:13 AM User Rank Author
Re: Big Brother
@elizabeth Google has shared that it gets requests for information from the FBI as you see here https://theintercept.com/2016/12/13/google-publishes-eight-secret-fbi-requests/ but I doubt that the government can demand information merely for the purpose of giving a speeding ticket. Maybe if the speeding car was a hit and run and ended up killing someone, the police would push for it, though, that doesn't mean Google would comply.
mpouraryan
7/21/2017 11:28:18 AM User Rank Platinum
Re: Big Brother
Yes-but they are balking--we have to stay vigilant. On a side note, though, this is a cool little thing that has happened in Mississipi thought you all might enjoy..as I wish you all a great w-end:
http://www.routefifty.com/tech-data/2017/07/mississippi-chatbot/139614/ mpouraryan
7/21/2017 11:28:19 AM User Rank Platinum
Re: Big Brother
Yes-but they are balking--we have to stay vigilant. On a side note, though, this is a cool little thing that has happened in Mississipi thought you all might enjoy..as I wish you all a great w-end:
http://www.routefifty.com/tech-data/2017/07/mississippi-chatbot/139614/ mpouraryan
7/23/2017 3:39:32 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Big Brother
You are not alone @bayte--the challenge we ordinary folks have is that we have to somehow mitigate it all--things that we really don't have any control off-do we? The question is how can we be able to stay safe in the "Virtual Wild Wild West"?
 batye
7/23/2017 11:02:11 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Big Brother
@mpouraryan yes with hackers poping everywhere is getting scarry but it life in the new age...
mpouraryan
7/23/2017 11:20:28 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Big Brother
How can we mitigate it, though? How can we empower the end user? Can that even be done? That's the ultimate question--isn't it?
Wishin' you all a great week throughout TT!! elizabethv
7/26/2017 8:55:03 AM User Rank Platinum
Re: Big Brother
@Ariella - I'm thinking more of a V for Vendetta type world, where the government is all controlling. Anymore it doesn't seem that out of the question...
 freehe
7/22/2017 9:18:14 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Big Brother
@Kishore Jethanandani, The FBI illegally taped several people. Just because it is illegal doesn't mean a company want do it.
faryl
7/24/2017 8:30:33 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Big Brother
I agree. Or just because a technology hasn't been used by law enforcement against someone in the past doesn't mean it won't be used against people in the future.
Even if local governments don't have plans on utilizing data that way, depending on what information they are storing, data retention, etc., the state or federal government may decide to use that data differently.
freehe
7/22/2017 9:16:04 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Big Brother
@afwriter. I agree. When any entity has too much of one thing, it can be abused. I see this data being abused in a bad way.
faryl
7/24/2017 8:26:07 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Big Brother
I agree. It's kind of disconcerting that there hasn't been more coverage about this implementation here.
Plus just because something isn't used for that currently doesn't mean information can't be suppoenaed for use. (And it never seems like the info is used to defend/protect citizens, usually it's used to try to convict them)
elizabethv
7/21/2017 8:59:40 AM User Rank Platinum
Re: Big Brother
I agree, there is always the possibility of the Orwellian future. (Some speculate we are already there.) But for right now, the advantages seem to far outweigh the possibilty of the negatives at this point. Leaving the option for changing that opinion depending on future circumstances.
mpouraryan
7/23/2017 3:42:16 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Big Brother
In some ways, we have already arrived at it as we have to be constantly on the move and vigliant. As i noted, many of these are beyond our control.
freehe
7/22/2017 9:10:47 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Big Brother
@afwriter. I totally agree. What will be done with this data? How will the data be used? I see security risks with collecting all this data.
mpouraryan
7/23/2017 3:40:46 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Big Brother
What you all have noted is the broader question of the "Right to Privacy"--which is virtually non-existent. Although Europe still seems to think we can somehow stay "private" as exemplified by the moves they've made against Google.
faryl
7/24/2017 8:32:44 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Big Brother
Especially since our governments don't seem especially skilled at keeping user data safe.
freehe
7/22/2017 9:22:35 PM User Rank Platinum
Big Brother
Smart Cities also allow companies to track data on residents. Speed light cameras and other cameras in smart ciites can include facial recognition technology similar to what Facebook uses.
As long as security measures are put in place smart cities provide value.  dcawrey
7/23/2017 3:03:52 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Big Brother
I've notice a lot more installation of LED lights in terms of things like street lights.
It's a welcome improvement. LED can do more, and it is more efficient. Good to see cities join the 21st century by utilizing tech to solve problems.  Michelle
7/23/2017 3:44:20 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Big Brother
I have wondered how much the regular street light bulb costs to replace (including labor). It would seem that LEDs could certainly bring down labor costs. LED lightbulbs for home use are a bit pricy, however. I wonder how the industrial versions compare to traditional lighting...
mpouraryan
7/23/2017 3:48:03 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Big Brother
..what is clear is this: the way things are being done has to change because it is frankly insanity. Why is there not a commitment for such transformation is mind boggling.....
Kishore Jethanandani
7/24/2017 1:06:41 PM User Rank Author
Re: Big Brother
LED lights are programmable so they can be bright and dim as the context requires. The energy savings that are realized from it are due to the fact that their brightness can be regulated in real-time. The company Echelon mentioned in the text also uses weather data provided by IBM to regulate the brightness. Additionally, the color of the LED light can be changed. Blue light is bad for sleep. I have not mentioned all the details. I could write an entire article on how cities can use Smart Lights to do a variety of things.
afwriter
7/24/2017 4:34:08 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Big Brother
@Kishore I would be interested in reading that. Just the few points you threw out there have my interest peaked. There would definitely be a bigger argument for the cost of LED lights if we could map out all of their benefits.
Kishore Jethanandani
7/24/2017 5:03:40 PM User Rank Author
Re: Big Brother
You can find some of the info on Echelon's site. Google will provide an overview. One of the applications cities are considering is redirecting traffic in the event of an accident or other emergencies. You could, for example, use orange lights that cars can follow to be redirected.
afwriter
7/29/2017 6:14:28 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Big Brother
I would also like to see a comparison of energy usage/cost between LED and Traditional street lights.
afwriter
7/29/2017 11:02:47 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Big Brother
There is no doubt that there is real value here the conversation is/will become if the value is worth the risk.
 JohnBarnes
7/24/2017 9:27:41 PM User Rank Platinum
Cameras everywhere, already linked to law enforcement. What a happy thought.
I must remember to buy a diary at a second hand store while they're still not recording purchases. And never to write DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER under a streetlight.
JohnBarnes
7/24/2017 9:41:26 PM User Rank Platinum
Slightly more seriously, LEDs should make reverbere laws finally inevitable
For those not acquainted, a reverbere is the type of streetlight most famous from Paris, where they have had them for a long time. It directs light downward. Besides making pools of light that look really cool in movies, that also means a dark sky; you can see stars from any side street. Which is vastly healthier for people and animals in the city.
American cities have always fought against reverberes because they argue the lights are cheaper without the shields, and anyway reverbere laws lead inevitably to restrictions on advertising, and illuminated skyscrapers, and all the other things that make our cities so glaringly ugly. Filament and fluorescent light have a basic economy of scale -- the bigger the source, the more efficient, i.e you get a lot more light per unit power out of a 750- or 1000-watt lamp blasting away in all directions than out of, say, 10 75-watt or 100-watt lamps. LEDs scale the other way: little is efficient. A bank of them sitting in reflectors (like an upside down shiny egg box) is really efficient -- and sents all the light downward. Moreover, you can put them all on little gimbal/servo things and point the light where it's needed when it's needed there. (Person or AI monitoring a surveillance camera doesn't like the look of what's going on in an alley? Streetlights re-aim to brighten it up. Crowd coming out of a show or sports event onto icy pavement or steps? Lights aim at low angles (to stay out of eyes and reveal the sheen of the ice.) Eventually, with links to self-driving cars, you might normally drive through the city with headlights off; the car won't need them to see and the streetlights will just keep enough light for the car to see in a bubble around each car (or a streak along a busy lane). Kishore Jethanandani
7/24/2017 10:55:31 PM User Rank Author
Re: Slightly more seriously, LEDs should make reverbere laws finally inevitable
Yeps, you sure can do without the fog lights.
afwriter
7/24/2017 11:17:32 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Slightly more seriously, LEDs should make reverbere laws finally inevitable
You bring up some great ideas there John. It will be interesting to see if they come true and how fast they do.
Joe Stanganelli
7/27/2017 10:07:30 AM User Rank Author
Re: Slightly more seriously, LEDs should make reverbere laws finally inevitable
@John: For my personal tastes, this all sounds dystopic. I seem to be extra sensitive to LEDs and I find them way too bright all the time.
Or maybe everything with LEDs just uses way too much power. But even if that's the case, I don't see that trend changing any time soon. |
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