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clrmoney
clrmoney
6/1/2017 3:27:35 PM
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Platinum
Virtualization connecting with AI and Big Data
I like how they say IOT/Internet of Things are becoming reality as well as AI, Big Data etc. The AI is a value and useful relating to machines and Big Data have it for making things better for advanced computers etc.

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afwriter
afwriter
6/1/2017 11:48:47 PM
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Re: Virtualization connecting with AI and Big Data
I really believe that AI is going to change the way we do business even more than big data has. Automation is going to be like nothing we have ever seen and it may cost jobs in some areas, but those will hopefully be made up in other areas. 

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batye
batye
6/4/2017 6:02:00 PM
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Re: Virtualization connecting with AI and Big Data
@afwriter how I see it AI gonna be poping everywhere and it only mater of time before it get to our home....

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dcawrey
dcawrey
6/4/2017 11:25:21 PM
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Platinum
Re: Virtualization connecting with AI and Big Data
I'm excited about the prospect of AI. And I agree, it's going to come down to data. 

If you've used any AI-type products on the market today, it's obvious the data component still needs work. It still needs refinement. It will come - but not tomorrow. 

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batye
batye
6/4/2017 11:30:04 PM
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Re: Virtualization connecting with AI and Big Data
@dcawrey  I could not agree more for AI still we need to invest a lot before we see it everywhere...

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srufolo1
srufolo1
6/5/2017 7:11:36 PM
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Platinum
Re: Virtualization connecting with AI and Big Data
@dcawrey This is true. My friend, who travels extensively for business, gave an example that when he was in Germany at a McDonald's, of all things, there were kiosks there for people to order the food to avoid having to go to the counter to order. But most people who started to use them got fed up, walked away from them and ordered through the clerk at the counter anyway. I don't see the value of such a thing. Like, how fast can you make fast food without human intervention?

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mhhf1ve
mhhf1ve
6/6/2017 8:09:49 PM
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Platinum
Re: Virtualization connecting with AI and Big Data
> "But most people who started to use them got fed up, walked away from them and ordered through the clerk at the counter.."

There has also been a bit of pushback with the "self checkout" lines in grocery stores. It sorta works at Home Depot, but paying for bananas and apples is a cumbersome process if you haven't memorized your favorite fruit's 4-digit codes. 

I can imagine a store with far fewer human employees, but there will always need to be a few humans around to catch the edge cases of things that can happen. Unless supermarkets turn into enormous vending machines that just spit out boxes of food for shoppers..?

I assume that's how fast food might evolve, too... you order your food on an app.. and then a drive-thru vending machine just spits it out to you when you arrive.

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JohnBarnes
JohnBarnes
6/6/2017 9:47:35 PM
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Platinum
Re: Virtualization connecting with AI and Big Data
mhhf1ve,

The real problem with supermarket checkout right now is, as you say, produce, but that's really just a matter of more training -- I mean training for machine learning, not for people, however. Right now you can't count on a set of cameras to tell an apple from a peach or a pear with adequate reliability; eventually you need something that knows a Granny Smith from a Golden Delicious and a Gala from a Fuji.  But that can be done; again, just a matter of the programs getting their 10k-hour equivalent in.

And given the financial rewards to the companies, somewhere out there right now there's some robot switching bunches of small plantains and big bananas back and forth on a platform, and an AI taking careful notes and scoring itself every few hundred switches.

An automation barrier that can be solved with an automated solution isn't much of a barrier.

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mhhf1ve
mhhf1ve
6/6/2017 10:01:14 PM
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Platinum
Re: Virtualization connecting with AI and Big Data
JohnB - agreed, and there are robots that are already training to recognize all kinds of items. Amazon is actively developing computer vision systems for warehouse picking robots. https://www.technologyreview.com/s/538601/inside-amazons-warehouse-human-robot-symbiosis/ But... it's not an easy problem. I'm not sure when robots will have the same recognition of fruit as humans...

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srufolo1
srufolo1
6/6/2017 10:11:28 PM
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Platinum
Re: Virtualization connecting with AI and Big Data
@JohnBarnes I agree. It will take a lot of training for these robots to tell the difference between a peach and an apricot or an apple and a pear.  Besides learning how these fruits look, they will have to learn how to taste the difference. Can they be trained to do that, I wonder?

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JohnBarnes
JohnBarnes
6/6/2017 11:02:10 PM
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Platinum
Re: Virtualization connecting with AI and Big Data
srufolo1,

It's not necessarily any harder than telling the difference between a paper bag or a toy balloon blowing across the road and linking that to the probability of a pursuing toddler.

I'm guessing we'll get tech that smells more than it tastes the food -- but right now there are detectors for plenty of airborne chemicals.  It will be an interesting optimization problem to figure out what 10, or 20, or 50 airborne trace chemicals you have to sniff for -- but again, that's the kind of problem data science/AI/machine learning is made for.

Like so many new and revolutionary technologies, people seem to overestimate the short run and drastically underestimate the long run. Mechanical and electronic reproduction of music was a long time coming and still something of a novelty when my grandfather was young, adn that was decades after Edison and Marconi. But I live in a world where people prettymuch have any music they want wherever and whenever they want it. Refrigerators were invented before the Civil War, and remained luxuries till well past World War II, but they've completely revolutionized our diets now. (Whether we live on fresh produce year round or can always thaw out another greasy breaded freezer snack!)

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srufolo1
srufolo1
6/7/2017 4:52:25 PM
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Platinum
Re: Virtualization connecting with AI and Big Data
@JohnBarnes  Yes, I agree that technology is advancing far more quickly than it has since before the Civil War, or even after the Industrial Revolution. It's not to say that certain technologies could have been in place years before they were, it was a matter of economics. When I attended the 1964 World's Fair in New York, we were amazed by just a blender making peanut butter out of peanuts. And the GE Futuruma and Westinghouse exhibits showed and talked about things that are just happening more than 50 years later. The technology was there, it just was not implemented.

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JohnBarnes
JohnBarnes
6/11/2017 11:04:54 PM
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Platinum
Re: Virtualization connecting with AI and Big Data
Srufolo1,

If there's anything in the long-wave cycles in economics (Kondratiev and his descendants), the pattern seems to be that tech develops in fits and starts over long periods of time, but then deploys in short very intense bursts (like the 1900-20 burst that brought out automobiles, movies, airplanes, sound recordings, radio, or the 1950s burst that brought satellites, computers, television, nuclear power, the beginnings of modern DNA-based genetics, industrial plastics and ceramics, and so on). All those things were possibilities on the "tech shelf" for a long time; the right combination of politics and economics suddenly started them all jumping off the shelf at once.

Just now the shelf is getting very full.

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srufolo1
srufolo1
6/12/2017 12:25:26 PM
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Platinum
Re: Virtualization connecting with AI and Big Data
The technology shelf is plenty full with things like VR and AI, including smart cars and smart cities. We drag our feet mainly because of politics. For example, Elon Musk of Tesla recently resigned from Trump's advisory council. Companies such as Tesla are talking about flights to Mars carrying people. How long do you think that will take? I'm sure the technology is in place.

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JohnBarnes
JohnBarnes
6/17/2017 7:41:36 PM
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Platinum
Re: Virtualization connecting with AI and Big Data
srufolo1,

Economic historians quarrel a lot about whether there even is a technological shelf (I think there is, but some very smart people would disagree), and of the ones who think there is, there's even fiercer disagreement about why the shelf suddenly empties into the market after years of filling up.  Kondratiev himself, and after him much more Schumpeter, both leaned to the explanation that you needed "creative destruction" to do the job -- i.e. massive disinvestment from existing industries, either because profits had fallen too low or because something like a major depression or war had dislocated everything. Kondratiev thought such tech booms happened mostly in the aftermath of depressions/wars, but given that he was a Marxist trying to figure out when the Revolution would finally happen, maybe that was just his bias. Right-wingers Schumpeter and Hayek both thought that the tendency of profits to fall in industry over time (as price competition erodes revenue down toward costs) eventually created a pool of desperate-to-invest money.  Keynes would have split the difference and said that depressions are periods of longterm low-to-no profits, wars are times of restricted demand, and the necessary low priced capital for a tech surge piles up until it gets released, at which point the pile of accumulated cheap investment cash tips over the tech shelf, to mix us some metaphors in a major way.

Given that we are now coming out of the Great Recession with employment close to full (i.e. high demand) and interest rates close to zero, maybe that shelf is already tipping over. That might explain why there's so much new tech news to cover here at TT!

 

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srufolo1
srufolo1
6/6/2017 10:07:35 PM
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Platinum
Re: Virtualization connecting with AI and Big Data
@mhhf1ve The bananas and apples don't have to be cumbersome because you can use a scanning gun as you go along. So you weigh the produce and then scan the bar code before you get to the checkout line. My bone of contention is people who use the self-checkout that don't have a clue and hold up the entire line! And I agree there will always have to be a few humans around to check that no one is stealing, for instance, and so you can cash in your bottle recycling tickets. Employees are probably good for other things too.

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JohnBarnes
JohnBarnes
6/6/2017 11:12:18 PM
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Platinum
Re: Virtualization connecting with AI and Big Data
srufolo1,

Though machines are harder to bribe, don't get bored and fall asleep with their eyes open, and could probably be given a reasonable set of criteria to describe behaviors that were suspicious and required intervention ("Shopper in produce aisle who has just put a bunch of bananas under your sweater, please take them out and plan to pay for them. You have been recorded and  tracking and facial recognition will allow us to report your likely identity to the police if necessary."

Also, come to think of it, that robot won't get bored and decide to tackle a shoplifter and create the grounds for a lawsuit.

The biggest advantage humans have is that some people prefer their company, and would rather talk to Fred the butcher than to F2E0 the meat dispenser. That may not always be the case; right now self-service checkout is cranky, obnoxious, prone to breakdowns. Eventually it's more likely to say "please place your basket of items here. I'll unpack and bag them. Any special bagging instructions?" and will know about such things as not crushing eggs, bread, or tomatoes, making sure meat is positioned not to leak, etc. Eventually you may decide you like F2E0's accuracy and efficiency (and not having to be nice to it) more than you like Fred's corny jokes and nosy questions, even if he does really understand what "thin even slices" are (especially because F2E0 will understand that better).

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srufolo1
srufolo1
6/7/2017 4:54:39 PM
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Platinum
Re: Virtualization connecting with AI and Big Data
@JohnBarnes I see that kind of accuracy by any machine a long way off. As humans, we will always crave the company of others. Machines are cold.

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JohnBarnes
JohnBarnes
6/11/2017 11:00:02 PM
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Platinum
Re: Virtualization connecting with AI and Big Data
srufolo1,

From what I see in labs and in tech reports, it's not a long way away. It's already here. What's missing is the capital and decision-making to move into deployment.

 

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mhhf1ve
mhhf1ve
6/7/2017 12:33:54 AM
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Virtualization connecting with AI and Big Data
There's also the chance that live video streaming will become more widespread-- and then remote humans will compete (or train/augment) the robots that people will interact with. So a remote human can help scan your groceries with a video chat app built into the checkout machine.

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afwriter
afwriter
6/7/2017 12:34:47 AM
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Platinum
Re: Virtualization connecting with AI and Big Data
"I assume that's how fast food might evolve, too... you order your food on an app.. and then a drive-thru vending machine just spits it out to you when you arrive."

@mhhf1ve it worked in Star Trek

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mhhf1ve
mhhf1ve
6/7/2017 7:39:09 PM
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Virtualization connecting with AI and Big Data
> "it worked in Star Trek"

Ha! Except they had Replicators that could make almost anything (except alcohol?) in seconds. 

I'm thinking more along the lines of a pizza-making robot:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/artisanal-pizza-made-by-bruno-the-robot-and-other-true-tales-of-automated-food/2016/10/31/2ba482dc-9a0d-11e6-b3c9-f662adaa0048_story.html?utm_term=.e46668d0d7c0

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afwriter
afwriter
6/23/2017 12:31:27 AM
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Platinum
Re: Virtualization connecting with AI and Big Data
I have yet to come in contact with any of these robotic vendors, though I have read about them. I would be interested in trying one out. 

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freehe
freehe
6/18/2017 12:32:23 PM
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Virtualization connecting with AI and Big Data
@mhhf1ve, I agree. I have used self-checkout at grocery stores and convenience stores and at least 50% of the time required human assistance. I only used self-checkout at grocery stores because the line was shorter. They will always require human intervention because eventually the computer will fail or malfunction or a code  or price will be entered incorrectly.

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afwriter
afwriter
6/23/2017 12:33:41 AM
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Virtualization connecting with AI and Big Data
I think they are still evolving too. Where I live there are more self-checkouts popping up which are opting to use video surveillance for security versus weighing items. This simple step has cleared out a lot of problems with self-checkouts. 

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JohnBarnes
JohnBarnes
6/6/2017 9:54:36 PM
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Virtualization connecting with AI and Big Data
srufolo1,

That's probably early adopter recruitment -- it's a recognized technique -- at first just a few people who really don't like people will prefer to endure an aggravating, counter-intuitive, frustrating gadget. But recording their difficulties lets you improve enough so that many more humanophobes can tolerate your interface, and it starts to make more sense to more people. THen a few people use it because they're in a rush ... and get a habit of using it ... and now there are jokes and insider-sayings about the interface, which teach other people ... and pretty soon it is only crusty old poops like myself who insist on talking to a person at the counter (when we can draw their attention away from their headphones and the screen).

The first plane didn't travel as fast as the train that carried it, in a crate, to Kitty Hawk .. . but remember the Bateson rule: for anything in which machines replace living people, by far the longest time is spent getting the machine to be able to do the task at all. After that it's a very fast trip down the hill to the machine doing it all better than a human.

 

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freehe
freehe
6/18/2017 12:30:06 PM
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Platinum
Re: Virtualization connecting with AI and Big Data
@srufolo1, LOL! That is too funny. I agree. You cannot make fast food any faster, at least you shouldn't. Then the lines get blurred between what is food and something other than food.

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freehe
freehe
6/18/2017 12:27:38 PM
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Virtualization connecting with AI and Big Data
@afwriter, I agree. It will impact the job market. It has already started with automation in manufacturing companies using robotics and self-service checkouts at convenience stores and grocery stores.

I hope that instead of laying off employees companies will retain employees to transition to other jobs in the automation field.

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batye
batye
6/4/2017 5:54:35 PM
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Virtualization connecting with AI and Big Data
@clrmoney  I think we already iving in the time of advanced computing it like Future Now.... 

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freehe
freehe
6/18/2017 12:25:12 PM
User Rank
Platinum
Virtualized Cloud
Great article but it neglected to mention security measures for virtualized clouds. In the healthcare patient example they should have provided an example of how virtualized clouds, AI and big data will secure a patient's health information.

 

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afwriter
afwriter
6/23/2017 12:35:07 AM
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Virtualized Cloud
That is a great point, security is so important. 

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freehe
freehe
6/18/2017 12:33:01 PM
User Rank
Platinum
VIrtualized Cloud AI and Healthcare
I prefer going to healthcare providers that still use paper. When health information is digitized the potential for identity theft and healthcare fraud increases exponentially.

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afwriter
afwriter
6/28/2017 5:02:34 PM
User Rank
Platinum
Re: VIrtualized Cloud AI and Healthcare
That is a great point, but I think you will increasingly have to travel to remote parts of the world to find paper records. The only thing we can do now is to continue to push for better security overall, but especially when it comes to sensitive documents like medical documents. 

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dcawrey
dcawrey
6/28/2017 10:52:33 PM
User Rank
Platinum
Re: VIrtualized Cloud AI and Healthcare
@afwriter The medical industry in particular has been a tough nut to crack when it comes to digitization. And I think that issue is only going to continue for the time being - technology solutions to make these things easier just have not yet arrived. 

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